Traveller-digest       Monday, August 16 1999       Volume 1999 : Number 965



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re :- Playing with First In
Re: Alternate Game Mechanics - Cybertech
re: Books
Re: Terraforming
Re: Mail-order game supplies
Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper
Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper
Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper
Re: Ship questions...
Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper
Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...
Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...
Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...
Re: Ethically challenged merchants
Re: Traveller props
Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...
Re: h. aquatica
Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper
Re: Endorphins...
RE: Alternate Game Mechanics
Re: Books
Re: Range of Sight?
FW: Hot Gas Giants - Skimming
FW: Ethically challenged merchants
re: Books
Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...
Online Game Vendors
Re: Range of Sight?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:33:39 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re :- Playing with First In

Doug Berry posted some data about Wardn to the list.
> 
> Surface Temperture: 281K    Climate: Chilly

Brr... a bit cold for love-ins? (281K is the average maximum
temperature in the 'temperate' zone, from G:Space/'First In'). Things
might not be too bad in the 'tropics' there ('Earth normal' climate
category). 

> *Grin* ..it just struck me.. this could be a world full of hippies!
> The ultimate bastion of Political Correctness !

Just as long as they keep the air conditioning in good nick.
<g>

Thanks for posting the system data. I've only just started to muck
around with 'First In' system gen (professional exams are very time
consuming)...

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:34:33 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Alternate Game Mechanics - Cybertech

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>That's a *different* Harrison trilogy. He's written a *lot* of books.
>
>The "hero" in all three "Deathworld" books is a guy named Jason dinAlt.

I'll have to check my copy, but I'm sure it calls the last book "Deathworld".

Dom, bemused

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:36:49 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Books

"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net> writes:
>Good book!  And, not-Travellerish is how I'd describe it.
>
>How about the new Solar Queen books from Norton and co-writers? Are they
>worth a read?

Yes! They're a little more adult in writing style and I enjoyed them a lot.
I'd give you a review but Andy Lilly has my set and I won't see him until
GenCon UK.

They're ideal for a heretic. ;-)

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:52:47 EDT
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terraforming

In a message dated 8/15/99 7:37:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time, 
robocon@ozemail.com.au writes:

> Before 'First In', Traveller planetary generation often created
>  small worlds with substantial atmospheres.
>   Could these be explained as incomplete terraforming efforts (in
>  the Imperial campaign, by either the Ancients <least preferable 
>  option>, the First Imperium, the Rule of Man or the 3I)?

I didn't want to say so explicitly in the book, but this seems
to me to be a very reasonable handwave to "explain" all those
worlds with oxynitrogen atmospheres in the OTU.

I can imagine a lot of Vilani colonies working across centuries to
improve local conditions.  Admittedly the Vilani weren't terribly
good at bioscience, but that would just have slowed them down,
it wouldn't have stopped them.  They were certainly good at large-
scale physical engineering, and they tended to take a very long
view.  Major terraforming at GTL 9 takes a long time, but the First
Imperium *had* a long time.

>   I recall that Leonard Erickson noted in a discussion on
>  gravitic construction a month or two ago that a body the size and
>  mass of Earth's moon *could* support an Earth standard atmosphere
>  for a couple of million years or so, time enough for humanity to
>  florish and eventually become extinct on the world.

Certainly true.  The First In rules assume that no terraforming has
taken place, so if a world is to have a breathable atmosphere it must
be such that it can retain one over very long periods.  It has to be
large enough, naturally warm enough (but not too warm), have native
life forms, and so on.  If there's been an interstellar civilization around
for thousands of years, it makes sense to assume that many marginal
worlds have been made habitable.

>   The tech level scales in 'First In' are the first that I've
>  seen that make limited Vilani or ROM terraforming possible (much more
>  likely than the 'traditional' sequences).

We've now got a better understanding of what might be involved in
terraforming than did the authors of Classic Traveller (or the WBH,
for that matter).  It looks a lot more practical, if you have interstellar-
level technology and a lot of time to work.

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 17:59:48 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Mail-order game supplies

>From: "Justice Hypercleats" <eris@sierratel.com>
...
>I wish there were game dealers out there who would put up a website, list
>the products they have (or can get), and have a credit card form right there
>for me to use.  If any FLGS wanted to provide shipping out to Whanga, I'd be
>a customer.  And I think many other Whangoids would, as well.

  IIRC, Titan Games carries both new & used (I assume that you purchased 
the latter from them?); they will order just about anything currently in
the distribution system, and their standard discount on new items is 30%
off MSRP. Even if you have some strange urge to order Games Workshop figs
with extra Big Spiky Bitz I imagine that they would supply those too at 
below GW mail-order prices.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:05:14 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper

> Ditzie's always been written this way.

Sounds to me like early in her life she had some mighty odd language
imprinting. Perhaps stranded on a hostile world with a herd of other
chilluns? Orphan Transport Ship that crash landed?
BZA
////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi+  A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:15:33 -0700
From: "Justice Hypercleats" <eris@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper

> It was my understanding that was how Ditzie sounded *under* 
> treatment...*her* family is trey strange. ;->
 And who is this family Spofumasumthing I keep hearing about? The Adams
family in space? I have some cute sketches of D. I found, but I don't
remember a biography.
BZA

////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi+  A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:13:39 -0700
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper

>> Ditzie's always been written this way.
>
>Sounds to me like early in her life she had some mighty odd language
imprinting. Perhaps stranded on a hostile world with a herd of other
chilluns? Orphan Transport Ship that crash landed?
>
Maybe she does it on purpose to make the adults act weird.

Kiri

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:28:54 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Ship questions...

> There are a couple of canonical examples of ship's registry numbers; the
> Beowulf's is one of these. Unfortunately, none of them are in the same format.

What are these formats? In context, could they be explained as regional or
historical variations? One of the first things I do when designing a
campaign setting is to rough out this sort of stuff.
BZA
////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi+  A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:40:10 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper

> We could of course, be sternly realistic about it

AUGH! Icky-wicky banalicky wyrms!

No, let's not do *that*.
Bangwa here, waiting for throgs.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:42:46 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...

> Could you please move this discussion off-list? It's starting to become
> offensive.

And I admit, often off-topic. I am quite amused it took longer for this
thread to collect an objection than the piracy thread.
BZA
////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi+  A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:03:03 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...

Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:
> 
> > Could you please move this discussion off-list? It's starting to become
> > offensive.
> 
> And I admit, often off-topic. I am quite amused it took longer for this
> thread to collect an objection than the piracy thread.

Well, I can think of at least two reasons why this thread has not
attracted the same attention as p****y:

1.  The topic of unorthodox Terran sexual practices has not been the
subject of interminable debates, with both sides quoting canon and logic
(as supports the poster's position).

2.  It wouldn't surprise me if some posters in this thread had a
voyeuristic interest in the subject.

Of these two suggested reasons, I suspect that Reason #1 is more
important.  I leave to the student any calculations concerning the
relative interests of the average Traveller player....

I figure that any discussion of the nature of Traveller player is
on-topic....

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:35:14 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...

I was just curious as to a state of affairs that had been beyond my ability
to comprehend.  For myself, it is still not a good thing, but I accept that
it is for others.
___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:24:40 -0400
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Ethically challenged merchants

I wrote:

>>Regarding attempts by the Impies to stop piracy on its margins, if the
risk
>>is low and the profit high, ....well lets put it this way,  ....they are
>>trying hold back the sea with a very leaky dike.

In response was asked:

>  How low do you think the risk is?


I suppose that you would have to get into the psychology of the crime of
piracy and what kind of support structure is available. To use an historical
example Port Royal in the Caribbean, functioned as a safe haven for years.
What I suggest is that if the perceived risk is low and the profit margin
high people with a criminal bend will drift into it looking for that one big
score and stay in it until their luck runs out.


I suspect that no criminal ever really expects to get caught.  We had a
troopie back when the 3rd Armored Cav was in El Paso who robbed a
convenience store at lunch one fine day.  He was very surpassed when they
came and arrested him.  Should not have been, he robbed the store wearing
his uniform.  We were the only unit on post wearing black berets and wide
cav belts with big brass belt buckles.  Since his name tag was on his chest
when he did the deed he was even easier to find.

Like another respondent wrote, I too see piracy
mainly as a crime of opportunity especially at the "able spaceman level",
not a career choice, but crime is a slippery path that is much easier to go
down than to come back up especially if you are, like most criminals, not
very bright or hooked on drugs.

The brains behind a really clever operation, one step or more removed from
the nitty gritty, are the real career criminals and their risk is far lower.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:36:18 -0400
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller props

One of the best "props/gaming aids" I had was a globe of the earth set in a
solid clear acrylic cube.  About 4 inches square I was my world dice for
emergency/crash landings.  I didn't actually use it very much, just took it
out and put it on the table at critical points in gaming sessions.  I would
look at it, then pick it up, roll it like a six sided all the while
chuckling evilly.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:01:52 -0700
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...

Well, I apologize... I never meant to start this when I mentioned that my
nickname was Mistress Tiamat, and it IS off-topic...

Kiri
- -----Original Message-----
From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Sunday, August 15, 1999 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...


>> Could you please move this discussion off-list? It's starting to become
>> offensive.
>
>And I admit, often off-topic. I am quite amused it took longer for this
>thread to collect an objection than the piracy thread.
>BZA
>////////////////////////////////////////
>Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi+  A523
>IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:29:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: h. aquatica

In mail you write:

> Some other evidence that I have seen thrown around is that the hair on the
> human body points/lays in one direction, like that of marine mammals.

Never owned a cat, have you?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:24:29 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper

From: Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Ditzie's Chopper-wopper

>It's supposed to be a *joke*, this mighty interstellar corporation, and the
>R&D department is run by this manical pre-teen, living on uppers and
>testing her new toys of the legal department.


    I know that, but if I were in the 3I & Ditzie was real, I would not buy
anything from her.  *weg*

>We could of course, be sternly realistic about it, since science fiction
>has never featured pre-teen girls who were smarter than the norm, and spoke
>distinctively.  So from now on, all FS post should be delivered by
>Corporate Suits.


    No, but make her speak less like a 4 year old & more like a 10 year old.
To be honest, she should grow & change.  I.e. her speech patterns should
change as she gets older.

>Ditzie a junkie?  Guess that makes everyone whose ever popped caffeine
>tablets washed down by coffee a junkie.


    In a way, yes, if you cannot get through the day without it.  Maybe she
could talk fast.  Hell, if she is wired on caffeine, she could still have a
distinctive speech patern, without sounding like a 4 yo.

Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.  Check it out!
Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of ultimate bad-asses will protect
you. Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry
half a city with this puppy.  We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma
pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes,
we got knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:25:42 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Endorphins...

From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Endorphins...

>>    Btw, I think we should try & get together for a weekend of BDSM &
>Traveller.  *weg*
>>
>Well at the very least Traveller.  I don't play with anyone but Hiroshi
>right now...  we're not terribly poly.  But it'd be fun to meet you and
>Amber.


    I was thinking more along the trading of way of doing things & if you
are an asian female, Amber would like to do more than meet you.  *weg*

Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:10:28 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE: Alternate Game Mechanics

> From: Thomas Jones-Low 
> > From: "Alan Bradley" 

> > I've always been intrigued by the possibility of running a scenario
> > where the 3I runs into a "cyberpunk" world.  The image of a massively
> > powerful "Big Iron" interstellar state colliding with a bunch of smart
> > barbarians is kind of appealing.  The Imperial Marines hits the mean
> > streets....
> 
> 	They never developed the jump drive, but are TL 11/14 (or higher). This
> would be a nasty scenario. And if they could import their Network
> functionality off planet, it may well be a repeat of the Solomani system
> vs 1I. 

Yep.  That's the idea.

Here's a quick plot outline, using stuff from various recent threads:

Some nasty little individual has managed to hack the computers on an
Imperial ship, downloading a lot too much information about jump drives. 
The PCs must recover the data before the locals work out what they've got.

Locations:  New Berkeley, Equitorial Republic.  The hacker starts of hiding
in the neighbourhood run by the Naked People.  The players stick out like
sore thumbs, especially since the NPs use *very* obvious
cyber-enhancements!  The PCs probably won't get into a shootout here,
unless they're dumb, but will have a hard time getting the information they
need.  

This will lead them to the New Berkeley campus of the Equitorial
University.  This place, amongst other things is one of the big infotech
centres of the world.  It is also the location of significant military
research centres, and a Psi Institute, if you feel like it.  There's also a
regular ongoing level of student unrest (why not?). 

So the PCs get to get caught up in some unrest (teargas, anyone?), have to
duck high tech security, and generally have a frustrating time.  But of
course, what they're looking for isn't all there, and they have to go on to
the next location.....

Vargrtown!  Use lots of "Chinatown" cliches here.  If PCs can't get into
trouble here, they caught the wrong bus, and are somewhere else.....

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:41:23 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Books

"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net> writes:
>Sure are!  New to me anyway, _Derelict For Trade_ and _Mind For
>Trade_, Andre Norton and Sherwood Smith.  There's a third one too,
>but it wasn't in the bookstore and I don't have it's name.  The
>backcover blurb on _Derelict..._ sounded really good.

_Redline the Stars_.

_Sargasso of Space_ was the first SF novel I read. ;-)

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:41:40 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Range of Sight?

"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net> writes:
>I don't have a good number for this and I figure someone here will...
>It's a clear day, you're standing on the shore looking out to open
>sea.  How far out would you be able to sight the sails of a sailing
>ship with your naked eyes?  With a simple telescope?  How much
>further if you were standing at the top of a 20 m lighthouse?
>My swag is 5 to 10 km. How far off am I?

By naked eye (glasses adjusted, not terrific vision) I can resolve
a sub-1 meter object a mile away (1600m or so) and clearly make out 1.5m
tall 4-5m long cars (see the windows, tires, etc, which are 0.5m or
so parts).  If we apply the same criteria to sailing ships (60m long,
45m tall sails as a random guess) then the distance should be 20-30 times
further, or 20-30 miles (30-45 km).

The distance to the horizon is a distinct problem, however.
At sea level you can only see 4-5 miles before small objects drop
below the curvature.  From 350 feet (~105 meters) altitude at
one particular point I stand at and look out to sea a lot
(the top gate to my family place in Marin County, California...)
you can see around 20 miles (nearly, but not quite, to the Farrallon
islands offshore).

There are tables of horizon distance versus planet size out
there somewhere, I remember seeing them.


- -george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:05:08 +0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: FW: Hot Gas Giants - Skimming

>As for skimming, *I* wouldn't try it. They are *much* more massive than
>Jupiter. And being so close to their stars, you'll already be hotter
>than hell *before* you have to deal with friction heating from the
>skimming run.
They aren't necessarily more massive than jupiter; many of the ones found
so far are, but that's a selection effect (big planets are easier to find).
There should be about as many low-mass (Saturn or below) close-in
gas giants. Those would be skimmable in theory, but in practice, the
1000K temperatures in their atmospheres would strain a ship's ability
to radiate away waste heat. (Unless the ship had excess radiator
capacity - one might allow ships with some class of IR masking (EMM in
TNE, Advanced Masking in FF2, or its GURPS equivalent) to have a
chance of surviving.

I think that the ships with the better radiators would be at a disadvantage
here. If the outside temperature is hotter than the radiators they will tend
to work in reverse and conduct all that heat into the interior of the ship.

This is basically what happened to the Motie ships in the Mote in Gods Eye
when their ships reentered normal space inside a red giant star. Their super
expanding langston field became a very efficient collector of energy.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:05:11 +0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: FW: Ethically challenged merchants

I don't know how many remember, but in the classic Blakes Seven TV series
the big crime syndicates were actually run by the Federation who wanted
complete control over their citizens lives. Piracy would have been an aspect
of this, and when the state is involved in the crime!

Also note when a government goes looking for a culprit they will find one
even if they have to manufacture one.

Hmm, time to get my players worried again.

Antony

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 02:50:17 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: re: Books

On 08/16/99 at 01:36 AM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

>How about the new Solar Queen books from Norton and co-writers? Are they
>>worth a read?

>Yes! They're a little more adult in writing style and I enjoyed them
>a lot. I'd give you a review but Andy Lilly has my set and I won't
>see him until GenCon UK.

Went to the bookstore this afternoon, bought _Derelict for Trade_, read it tonight, had to report. I liked it!  Seeing as it took me until 2:30 to finish, I'll be dead today, but it was a "can't put down" read. 

>They're ideal for a heretic. ;-)

You got that right!

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 02:53:03 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Endorphins...

On 08/15/99 at 06:42 PM,  "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com> said:

>> Could you please move this discussion off-list? It's starting to become
>> offensive.

>And I admit, often off-topic. I am quite amused it took longer for
>this thread to collect an objection than the piracy thread.

Well, we haven't had quite *this* discussion as many times as the P****y one. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 03:02:03 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Online Game Vendors

Hyper,

Didn't my post of online game vendors make it to the list?

I'm in about the same boat as you when it comes to local stores. Well, there *is* one nearby, but it doesn't seem to carry anything I'm interested in, and they won't special order. I end up ordering online for most of my purchases. I've used all four of the vendors I posted with no problems.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 03:14:41 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Range of Sight?

On 08/15/99 at 11:41 PM,  George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com> said:

>>I don't have a good number for this and I figure someone here will...
>>It's a clear day, you're standing on the shore looking out to open
>>sea.  How far out would you be able to sight the sails of a sailing
>>ship with your naked eyes?  With a simple telescope?  How much
>>further if you were standing at the top of a 20 m lighthouse?
>>My swag is 5 to 10 km. How far off am I?

>By naked eye (glasses adjusted, not terrific vision) I can resolve a
>sub-1 meter object a mile away (1600m or so) and clearly make out
>1.5m tall 4-5m long cars (see the windows, tires, etc, which are 0.5m
>or so parts). 

My eyes aren't so good.  I have trouble picking out a parked car at
500 m, and I'm not kidding about that.

>If we apply the same criteria to sailing ships (60m
>long, 45m tall sails as a random guess) then the distance should be
>20-30 times further, or 20-30 miles (30-45 km).

Really!  That's flabergasting to a nearsighted person like me.
However, as your next paragraph points out, there's more to it than
simply resolving...

>The distance to the horizon is a distinct problem, however. 

Right, and that's where I got my 5 to 10 km guess...even with a
spyglass.

>At sea level you can only see 4-5 miles before small objects drop below the
>curvature.  From 350 feet (~105 meters) altitude at one particular
>point I stand at and look out to sea a lot (the top gate to my family
>place in Marin County, California...) you can see around 20 miles
>(nearly, but not quite, to the Farrallon islands offshore).

Well, the reason I ask...and if I sneak the "p" word in here there
will be a hanging party out looking for me...is I was interested in
the maximum ranges at which "age of sail" ships could sight each
other.  I was guessing 10 to 15 km, but it might be further, maybe
30 km from what you say.

>There are tables of horizon distance versus planet size out there
>somewhere, I remember seeing them.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was B6, WBH, or First In. ;->

Thanks, I'd be interested to hear more.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #965
**********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe
"local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
